Comments on: Official statement on the future of Personal Ancestral File (PAF) http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/ Insights on technology development affecting the LDS community Thu, 09 Sep 2010 19:18:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: David http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-169 David Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:53:31 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-169 @Daniel It is good to hear of those who are having success with NFS. I would tend to agree that many of the problems that are being blamed on the NFS data have actually existed for years but only until now has the extent of this problem been made readily visible to genealogists. Even with the value provided by NFS, there will always exist a need for PAF and similar programs. However the need to easily synchronize data between NFS and PAF-like programs will become more apparent as NFS finally replaces existing LDS applications in all locations. @Daniel
It is good to hear of those who are having success with NFS. I would tend to agree that many of the problems that are being blamed on the NFS data have actually existed for years but only until now has the extent of this problem been made readily visible to genealogists.

Even with the value provided by NFS, there will always exist a need for PAF and similar programs. However the need to easily synchronize data between NFS and PAF-like programs will become more apparent as NFS finally replaces existing LDS applications in all locations.

]]> By: Daniel http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-168 Daniel Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:48:39 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-168 I am really impressed with NFS. I realize it is not fully developed, but we have to remember it is still a very new program. I find it very easy to combine names and yes, I did make a mistake in doing so once... but it was very easy to separate the name back off again. I found no problem doing so. The many duplicate names are not the fault of NFS, but a result of many people doing temple ordinances and NOT having NFS earlier. I love the ease of clearing names for temple ordinances. The prospect of having a handle on all of these names in one huge database and the freedom to work with it. I also understand the need to not delete information. I find the support excellent when I have had some problems. There are issues being worked on by the developers, such as large files where there are many duplicates. My wife has one family member with 102 duplicates.. this is very hard for the system to handle. I hope we will remember that there are many working on the issues and that this is the Lord's work. We ought to be praying that they are inspired to resolve any issues so that the work may go forth even faster. The software has been easy to use and quick to learn. And although there are suggesions I have made and others I know as well, I want to say I love it and it has renewed my interest and intensity in finding and submitting these names to the temple. One last comment for now.. I love the way we can separate ordinances, by using the reserve list and then when done doing what we can do, we can turn the rest back to the temple. This comes in very handy when I want to do 50 baptisms with our youth group, but I can't do 50 endowments when my temple is 4-1/2 hours away. I am really impressed with NFS. I realize it is not fully developed, but we have to remember it is still a very new program.
I find it very easy to combine names and yes, I did make a mistake in doing so once… but it was very easy to separate the name back off again. I found no problem doing so.
The many duplicate names are not the fault of NFS, but a result of many people doing temple ordinances and NOT having NFS earlier.
I love the ease of clearing names for temple ordinances. The prospect of having a handle on all of these names in one huge database and the freedom to work with it. I also understand the need to not delete information. I find the support excellent when I have had some problems.
There are issues being worked on by the developers, such as large files where there are many duplicates. My wife has one family member with 102 duplicates.. this is very hard for the system to handle.
I hope we will remember that there are many working on the issues and that this is the Lord’s work. We ought to be praying that they are inspired to resolve any issues so that the work may go forth even faster.
The software has been easy to use and quick to learn. And although there are suggesions I have made and others I know as well, I want to say I love it and it has renewed my interest and intensity in finding and submitting these names to the temple.
One last comment for now.. I love the way we can separate ordinances, by using the reserve list and then when done doing what we can do, we can turn the rest back to the temple. This comes in very handy when I want to do 50 baptisms with our youth group, but I can’t do 50 endowments when my temple is 4-1/2 hours away.

]]> By: Frustrated NFS user http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-167 Frustrated NFS user Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:18:20 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-167 I for one am on the NFS, and am NOT happy with it. It's no better than the betas they had out a while ago. I am 25 years old, and very tech savy. I just can't figure out why they do the things they do. I've read on some blogs that the NFS people are guessing that 30 percent of NFS submissions are duplicates. -The software has bellls and whistles in all the wrong places -The limitations are noticable, and frustrating -The data set is incredibly error-laden -The users don't know what they're doing and combine wrong people (don't even think about trying to separate people, uff!) -Currently there is no good way to source the data -There is no way to rank or grade the authenticity of the data -You can never delete erroneous and misleading information -If you do spend the hour or two to seperate two incorrectly merged people, the suggestions to merge them just come right up again for your cousin or someone to merge them again -The printing functions are impossible -The pioneer stock and royalty are so duplicated that it takes several minutes to load each individual -The temple work suggestions are almost always wrong (would they be in the LDS databases if the temple work wasn't done? No, 99.9% of the time.) Abandon my PAF 5.2 database in favor of NFS? I think not. And by the way, the only people who are "consistently happy" with NFS that I've met are the ones who haven't got a clue about what they're doing. The real genealogists of the church are up in arms about the problems with NFS. People are confusing inspired mandate to reduce duplication with inspired software developers. NFS will probably just turn out to be a mess of bad information, just like the Ancestral File, the Pedigree Resource File, and the International Genealogical Index. For all of our sakes, I hope they get their act together and fix this thing. I for one am on the NFS, and am NOT happy with it. It’s no better than the betas they had out a while ago. I am 25 years old, and very tech savy. I just can’t figure out why they do the things they do. I’ve read on some blogs that the NFS people are guessing that 30 percent of NFS submissions are duplicates.

-The software has bellls and whistles in all the wrong places
-The limitations are noticable, and frustrating
-The data set is incredibly error-laden
-The users don’t know what they’re doing and combine wrong people (don’t even think about trying to separate people, uff!)
-Currently there is no good way to source the data
-There is no way to rank or grade the authenticity of the data
-You can never delete erroneous and misleading information
-If you do spend the hour or two to seperate two incorrectly merged people, the suggestions to merge them just come right up again for your cousin or someone to merge them again
-The printing functions are impossible
-The pioneer stock and royalty are so duplicated that it takes several minutes to load each individual
-The temple work suggestions are almost always wrong (would they be in the LDS databases if the temple work wasn’t done? No, 99.9% of the time.)

Abandon my PAF 5.2 database in favor of NFS? I think not.

And by the way, the only people who are “consistently happy” with NFS that I’ve met are the ones who haven’t got a clue about what they’re doing.

The real genealogists of the church are up in arms about the problems with NFS. People are confusing inspired mandate to reduce duplication with inspired software developers.

NFS will probably just turn out to be a mess of bad information, just like the Ancestral File, the Pedigree Resource File, and the International Genealogical Index. For all of our sakes, I hope they get their act together and fix this thing.

]]> By: LDS Tech » Blog Archive » “Official” statement about status of PAF premature http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-90 LDS Tech » Blog Archive » “Official” statement about status of PAF premature Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:39:07 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-90 [...] expert, DearMYRTLE, raised a concern about my previous quote regarding PAF.  She did some research into whether my sources were considered [...] […] expert, DearMYRTLE, raised a concern about my previous quote regarding PAF.  She did some research into whether my sources were considered […]

]]> By: Roland http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-85 Roland Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:47:18 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-85 Hi Mormon Heretec - I've been working online with New Family Search for a month now. It looks like they already started it off with tons of stuff from the old Family Search, IGI and LDS Church Files. Odds are you won't need to upload any GedComs. In fact - I'm seeing that for common big family trees there is a lot of duplication. Because of the massive duplication already in NFS - we are being told to limit new GedCom uploads to only 10 records each. Hi Mormon Heretec -

I’ve been working online with New Family Search for a month now.
It looks like they already started it off with tons of stuff from the old Family Search, IGI and LDS Church Files.

Odds are you won’t need to upload any GedComs. In fact - I’m seeing that for common big family trees there is a lot of duplication.

Because of the massive duplication already in NFS - we are being told to limit new GedCom uploads to only 10 records each.

]]> By: garysturn http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-69 garysturn Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:54:12 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-69 Most LDS members have created their PAF files by downloading from church databases; IGI, Temple Records, Ancestral File, and the Pedigree Resource File. Since newFamilySearch (nFS) combines all of these databases with LDS Membership information, then combines duplicate individuals into folders and links families into pedigrees, members will find that most of the information in their PAF file is already in nFS. At the present time nFS does not want any duplicate individuals contributed by GEDCOM's. You have to certify that you have checked your GEDCOM and that you are only contributing new individuals when you submit a GEDCOM file. We are encouraged to wait for software to sync our existing data with nFS. There are many web sites where information can be found about nFS, including Church sites. You can go to FamiySearch.org and click on "Product Support" and type in questions about nFS and get your questions answered. Many of the future enhancements to nFS are available for review at familysearchlabs.org You can also go to lds.org and select "Serving in the Church" then "Family History" for more information and if you are a Priesthood Leader or a Family History Consultant you can register for e-mail updates and to receive an advanced account 90 days prior to your temple district coming online. newFamilySearch accounts are not available to members unless their temple district is using the new software, so you may need to wait before you will be allowed to register at new.familysearch.org for an account. Directors of Family History Centers and some trained Family History Consultants may have early access to newFamilySearch and can show you the program if you go to your local Family History Center. Most LDS members have created their PAF files by downloading from church databases; IGI, Temple Records, Ancestral File, and the Pedigree Resource File. Since newFamilySearch (nFS) combines all of these databases with LDS Membership information, then combines duplicate individuals into folders and links families into pedigrees, members will find that most of the information in their PAF file is already in nFS. At the present time nFS does not want any duplicate individuals contributed by GEDCOM’s. You have to certify that you have checked your GEDCOM and that you are only contributing new individuals when you submit a GEDCOM file. We are encouraged to wait for software to sync our existing data with nFS.

There are many web sites where information can be found about nFS, including Church sites. You can go to FamiySearch.org and click on “Product Support” and type in questions about nFS and get your questions answered. Many of the future enhancements to nFS are available for review at familysearchlabs.org You can also go to lds.org and select “Serving in the Church” then “Family History” for more information and if you are a Priesthood Leader or a Family History Consultant you can register for e-mail updates and to receive an advanced account 90 days prior to your temple district coming online.

newFamilySearch accounts are not available to members unless their temple district is using the new software, so you may need to wait before you will be allowed to register at new.familysearch.org for an account.

Directors of Family History Centers and some trained Family History Consultants may have early access to newFamilySearch and can show you the program if you go to your local Family History Center.

]]> By: David http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-42 David Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:16:44 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-42 @Mormon Heretic Other than cleaning up your data and working through it little by little once you start using NFS, I don't have any other recommendations. From those people that I have been in contact with who are actually using this system, they are consistently happy with it but recognize that there are still areas of improvement. The slow and methodical approach necessary to compare and combine your personal data with NFS data will continue to be improved, particularly for those who are open to using 3rd party tools when they become available. But even best of these tools won't be a "silver bullet" by doing all the work for you. There isn't anything that precludes people happy with PAF to continue using it and manually comparing individual records with NFS or bringing their data to a Family History Center for assistance when they are ready to check for ordinances. (This approach is still better than the current one of manually checking Temple Ready.) @Mormon Heretic
Other than cleaning up your data and working through it little by little once you start using NFS, I don’t have any other recommendations.

From those people that I have been in contact with who are actually using this system, they are consistently happy with it but recognize that there are still areas of improvement. The slow and methodical approach necessary to compare and combine your personal data with NFS data will continue to be improved, particularly for those who are open to using 3rd party tools when they become available. But even best of these tools won’t be a “silver bullet” by doing all the work for you.

There isn’t anything that precludes people happy with PAF to continue using it and manually comparing individual records with NFS or bringing their data to a Family History Center for assistance when they are ready to check for ordinances. (This approach is still better than the current one of manually checking Temple Ready.)

]]> By: Mormon Heretic http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-41 Mormon Heretic Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:00:39 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-41 I suspect that most of the information is available in the Pedigree Resource File--nearly all of my research has been done on the church websites. I've used PAF Insight for the temple info, but wasn't aware of the other products. My place names are pretty good, but I'm sure not perfectly clean. So, I'm still not sure what you think is the best approach. It sounds like you're saying I should clean up my data the best I can, before I launch into the new website. With 10K names, that will take quite some time, as the Ancestral File and Pedigree Resource File aren't really clean data sources either. Does my reasoning sound logical? Am I missing anything? I suspect that most of the information is available in the Pedigree Resource File–nearly all of my research has been done on the church websites. I’ve used PAF Insight for the temple info, but wasn’t aware of the other products. My place names are pretty good, but I’m sure not perfectly clean.

So, I’m still not sure what you think is the best approach. It sounds like you’re saying I should clean up my data the best I can, before I launch into the new website. With 10K names, that will take quite some time, as the Ancestral File and Pedigree Resource File aren’t really clean data sources either. Does my reasoning sound logical? Am I missing anything?

]]> By: David http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-40 David Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:00:46 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-40 @Mormon Heretic We are being told here in Utah to expect it by the end of the year, but that assumes that they can work through some of the bigger bugs that they have been experiencing with the new site. (If you go to http://new.familysearch.org and click on News and Updates, you'll see all of the changes that they have continued to introduce since it was first released) With 10K names, you definitely don't want to just load it into NFS and hope for the best. You will be combining records for a very long time, especially if very much of that data already exists in Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File! The other issue is a matter of how clean your records are. If you are using PAF reports, PAF Insight, and PAF Pal to be sure that place names are complete and consistent, you will be much farther ahead when you are ready to start loading your data into NFS. @Mormon Heretic
We are being told here in Utah to expect it by the end of the year, but that assumes that they can work through some of the bigger bugs that they have been experiencing with the new site. (If you go to http://new.familysearch.org and click on News and Updates, you’ll see all of the changes that they have continued to introduce since it was first released)

With 10K names, you definitely don’t want to just load it into NFS and hope for the best. You will be combining records for a very long time, especially if very much of that data already exists in Ancestral File or Pedigree Resource File! The other issue is a matter of how clean your records are. If you are using PAF reports, PAF Insight, and PAF Pal to be sure that place names are complete and consistent, you will be much farther ahead when you are ready to start loading your data into NFS.

]]> By: Mormon Heretic http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-33 Mormon Heretic Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:28:54 +0000 http://ldstech.org/2008/03/31/official-statement-on-the-future-of-personal-ancestral-file-paf/#comment-33 David--thanks for the info. So Utah isn't on the map! I guess they want to try it on smaller groups before they unleash it here, eh? I have about 10,000 records in my PAF. Some of these are due to me merging with my wife' family, and some of my cousins families, so the relatives are either distantly related, or perhaps not very related. What do you recommend I do with my GEDCOM for the new website? Also, I was going to register on the new site, but I can't remember my member record #, so I'll have to get it Sunday at church. Is it still a good idea for me to register? David–thanks for the info. So Utah isn’t on the map! I guess they want to try it on smaller groups before they unleash it here, eh?

I have about 10,000 records in my PAF. Some of these are due to me merging with my wife’ family, and some of my cousins families, so the relatives are either distantly related, or perhaps not very related. What do you recommend I do with my GEDCOM for the new website?

Also, I was going to register on the new site, but I can’t remember my member record #, so I’ll have to get it Sunday at church. Is it still a good idea for me to register?

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